More thoughts on trusting kids …
In response to my last post, Jen asked:
I just read and wonder, can parents who choose to traditionally school their kids still adopt some of the philosophy here? For us, I don’t think that we would feel comfortable choosing unschooling for our kids, but could we not also create a balanced outlook/life for them by letting our kids learn through experiences, trusting them, letting them see how things happen for themselves and encouraging them to pursue what really interests them? And I guess my other question is (being rather unknowledgable about unschooling)…how does that affect their ability to move on to other schooling if they wanted to (e.g. highschool, college, trade school, university)?
In response to the first part, I think parents who traditionally school their kids could definitely adopt a similar philosophy at home, and I think that’s a fantastic idea! I know one mom who sends her kid to school that doesn’t allow her daughter to read her report cards and talks with her about whether she’s learning, how she’s enjoying her subjects, and how grades don’t really test what you’re learning - and I think that’s fabulous! The major problem I see with that, though, is that kids spend, generally, more waking hours at school than they do at home … so I wonder at how quickly the trust would become overcome.
As for the second issue, there is a great post called 7 Ways to Get into University Without a High School Diploma. Apparently it’s actually more difficult to enroll in a college or trade school than into university, but that can be accomplished by taking a few university credits and transferring in. There are also, apparently, ways in which life experience can be transferred into high school credits, although I’m not entirely familiar with them - I figure I’ve got a ways to go before I have to figure this all out!
My sister Jenny said:
I had no idea you struggled with this because, honestly, you give off the impression you could really care less what anyone else thinks and you’ve always done exactly what you wanted whether or not anyone agreed with you.
Also is unschooling the same as home schooling in that you would keep them home and teach them? I couldn’t figure it out by reading your link.
I’m glad that I appear not to have an issue with this! Generally speaking, by the time that I’ve made a decision I have, pardon my language, researched the CRAP out of it and feel good about it and it’s true - by that point, I don’t care what people think. That doesn’t, however, mean that I’m not agonizing about making the decision or worried about whether the parents will approve. It’s odd - I don’t mind at all whether or not people respectfully disagree or want to discuss a decision - it’s the thought of letting someone down that bothers me. Maybe that’s why I don’t care what people think … if I can’t “let them down”, they don’t need to agree with me - and there’s only a few people who I feel like I could “let down”. Wow. That really sounds pathetic of me.
As for your question on unschooling, someone once defined it to me as homeschooling without a curriculum. Now that I have been researching it, that seems like a very shallow definition. Unschooling is allowing children the freedom to engage in self-directed learning - a method of learning which is highly supported by literature to be one of the most effective ways for people to learn. Why would I do this? I enjoy the following quote from John Holt’s article, The Right to Control One’s Learning:
Young people should have the right to control and direct their own learning; that is, to decide what they want to learn, and when, where, how, how much, how fast, and with what help they want to learn it. To be still more specific, I want them to have the right to decide if, when, how much, and by whom they want to be taught and the right to decide whether they want to learn in a school and if so which one and for how much of the time.
No human right, except the right to life itself, is more fundamental than this. A person’s freedom of learning is part of his freedom of thought, even more basic than his freedom of speech. If we take from someone his right to decide what he will be curious about, we destroy his freedom of thought. We say, in effect, you must think not about what interests and concerns you, but about what interests and concerns us.
That about sums it up. I want my kids to learn because they love learning (we are biologically driven to learn!) and I want them to learn about the world through play, through exploring their interests, by experiencing life, by interacting with people of all different ages, by doing “real world” tasks … all on a daily basis. For an interesting discussion of child-directed learning, check out Dr. Peter Gray’s article, The Wisdom of Hunter-Gatherers. Here’s an excerpt:
The freedom that hunter-gatherer children enjoy to pursue their own interests comes partly from the adults’ understanding that such pursuits are the surest path to education. It also comes from the general spirit of egalitarianism and personal autonomy that pervades hunter-gatherer cultures and applies as much to children as to adults. Hunter-gatherer adults view children as complete individuals, with rights comparable to those of adults. Their assumption is that children will, of their own accord, begin contributing to the economy of the band when they are developmentally ready to do so. There is no need to make children or anyone else do what they don’t want to do.
I love this concept and it is this view - the view of my children as a social, autonomous individuals - that is what is motivating me to educate outside the mainstream. I want to preserve their autonomy and trust them to learn everything they need to know to survive in our culture without being forced, coerced, or manipulated.
Keep the questions coming, people! Answering your questions helps me to put into words what I’m thinking and feeling - an exercise I find most useful!
Dionna @ Code Name: Mama said,
March 30, 2010 @ 12:42 am
I am so glad I stumbled onto your blog today! I am in the midst of writing a post about “questions people have when they are considering whether to homeschool.” It’s a list of 9 pretty general questions - would you have any interest in answering them for me? I will be sure to link to your blog when the post is published
Let me know if you have time, but no pressure.
As for this specific post - my husband and I were talking the other day and he said, so what happens for older homeschooled kids? What if they wanted to learn more about physics, and you or I wasn’t comfortable answering their questions? I said that many of my homeschooling friends have teenagers who take courses at their local community college. My husband’s eyes positively lit up - he thought that was the best idea that he had ever heard lol. I think he’s actually getting excited about homeschooling now - and to think, I had to talk him into it last year! (Our son is only 27 months though, so no big rush)
kim said,
March 30, 2010 @ 9:09 pm
Hi Dionna! Thanks for stopping by! I’d love to answer the questions … anything to make me think through my choices some more is welcome!! My kids are 5 weeks and 21 mos, so we’ve got a ways to go too!!
Sarah said,
March 31, 2010 @ 11:57 am
just stumbled in here - I’ll take a look around when I have a chance - interesting topic though. now that your LOs are hitting 2 you really don’t have as much time as it would seem : ) At the age of 2 kids transition out of toddlerhood and begin to form their own selves. The questions will start, small at first, and then bigger and bigger. These next 2-3 years are not a learning purgatory waiting until the school door opens to learn. Now is the time to teach our children how to question and how to learn. Also for us to learn how to teach. I know most parents around me who choose the public route just shrug off the questions, after all they’ll learn it in school eventually. But in the meantime I see those same children asking fewer questions. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting you’d shrug off your children, after all someone contemplating homeschooling isn’t likely to take the same views. But you will need to decide what your role is going to be, and I think you need a firmer idea of how you will teach your child at 5 and 6 in order to know how to approach the preschool years.
My little girl (3 and a bit) has decided to teach herself to read this week. I didn’t notice it at first, but when I did I ran with it…and she promptly stopped wanting to read. So I backed up and let her lead. Everyday she’s telling me more letters and sounds, and pointing to words and letters and either telling me or asking me what it is. A few weeks ago, a month ago, I wasn’t sure I could keep up with her, but the more schools, and programs I talk to, the more I realize that no one else will even try. But even worse they all expect kids to learn certain things a certain way. and her response would be the same for them as it was for me - dig in and throw a tantrum.
I guess the whole point of this is that even though your LOs won’t be at the age for school for a while yet, now is when you need to learn from them what would suit them best. Do they get along better with older, younger, or similar aged children? Are they eager to try new things? How do they react if they make a mistake? What interests them? Get a copy of the kindergarten/grade one curriculum and see if that’s really what you suspect your child will be learning. In about 2 years when she goes to kindergarten DD will be expected to learn to read, and begin writing (She already writes her name) she’ll also have to sit still (not likely).
Sorry for my ramblings - the whole self teaching thing has taken me for quite the loop and I’m still wishing I’d done more research before this - I’d also thought I had lots of time.
Good luck.
Nadine said,
April 2, 2010 @ 4:52 am
I wrote an article about homeschooling in Hamilton in the late 90’s and met the most amazin, intelligent kids! I’ll see if I can find it.
Tammy said,
April 2, 2010 @ 11:06 am
So, for unschooling - what happends if they just don’t ever want to learn math? They just never have to learn it? I agree that we’re all given a thirst for learning, but we don’t all want to learn the same things. But some things aren’t really optional are they?
kim said,
April 2, 2010 @ 6:24 pm
Tammy, all kids are social creatures who are driven to learn what they need to know to function in society. I think that when it comes to math, you eventually need to learn it! Take cooking - Gwen loves cooking with me. To learn math with cooking/baking, we can talk about how many cups we need if we double or triple the recipe. If say, I ask them to plan out a road trip and they want to know the distance we will cover, etc. So, willI sit them down and force them to memorize their times tables? No. Do I expect them to learn, at their own pace, the math needed to survive day-to-day life? Yes - they are children - they will learn it if it’s a useful tool!
Nadine - I’d love to read it!!
kim said,
April 2, 2010 @ 6:24 pm
Tammy, all kids are social creatures who are driven to learn what they need to know to function in society. I think that when it comes to math, you eventually need to learn it! Take cooking - Gwen loves cooking with me. To learn math with cooking/baking, we can talk about how many cups we need if we double or triple the recipe. If say, I ask them to plan out a road trip and they want to know the distance we will cover, etc. So, willI sit them down and force them to memorize their times tables? No. Do I expect them to learn, at their own pace, the math needed to survive day-to-day life? Yes - they are children - they will learn it if it’s a useful tool!
Karen said,
April 3, 2010 @ 7:03 am
I enjoyed this post a bunch. We’ve just recently made the decision to homeschool officially. Our oldest is now 5 and kindergarden was looming for next fall. We’re making some adjustments to make sure we are ready to support her learning. We’ve chosen a curriculum and I’m happy about the choice. It’s basically a lot of books to read to her and a very cool hands-on science book with 70+ projects/experiments. We also have 3 sewing projects and a loom, as she’s expressed an interest in various sewing that I do and this is a good start to learning.
We do tend to follow her lead for interests, and reading is just part of the fun. So reading is a natural extension of family life and we can call it school if we want to. I love that I’ll be here to answer her questions and that she’ll be free to move and express herself.
Sarah Rainsberger said,
April 5, 2010 @ 9:52 am
Hi Kim. Just wanted to say a quick thanks for posting the link to my article about getting into university without a high school diploma.
And, the comments have got me thinking about writing something on the whole “how does an unschooler learn math?” issue from a different (educator’s, not parent’s) perspective. So, with any luck, I’ll post something in the next few days about that. Thanks for the inspiration.
kim said,
April 5, 2010 @ 9:59 pm
Karen - thanks for stopping by!! It’s exciting, isn’t it, to make the decision to keep them home?!
Sarah - My pleasure
I would love to read some more information on learning math without school!
Tammy said,
April 8, 2010 @ 7:52 am
Yeah, I’d be ineterested in that post too. I can understand needing to learn basic math (like for cooking as you mentioned). But more advanced math is not normally necessary in “real life” that I’ve noticed. algebra, etc…
kim said,
April 8, 2010 @ 8:15 am
That’s true, Tammy! And in that vein, I would say they don’t really *need* to learn it. If they’re interested in ‘advanced math’, they will want to learn it - otherwise, it’s obviously not a life skill they require!
Shannon said,
May 14, 2010 @ 12:45 am
I’m an unschooler at heart, I think. I’ve tried to “encourage” Ellie to practice learning and writing letters and count, and it completely turns her off. If I don’t push her, she’ll actually want to do things. She’s not reading or writing much, but she can tell you how to plant a garden and make bread
Pushing schoolwork on her doesn’t work at all. I have huge issues with preschoolers being forced to do schoolwork. Their play is their work. I’m still coming to terms with how I feel about unschooling. If I were to send my kids to school at some point, I wouldn’t want them to be years behind, KWIM? I did find a curriculum that looks really interesting to my waldorfy, unschooling self though, so I might look into that at some point.